This is my second attempt to reply to you, the first apparently being censored by the Times.


>>>What about the shutting down of Pro-Thaksin sites / TV stations?

Not touched for two years, but only for encouraging listeners to join the mob and commit violence during the riots.

>>>Or the abuse of the lese majeste law?

It’s a law, Mr. Rule of Law. The laws are not abused when they are enforced because you don’t like them.

>>>Or the strongly pro-establishment Bangkok Post / The Nation?

In your opinion. Both papers originally supported Thaksin in the beginning. Other newspapers don’t have opinions? What is your point here?


>>>Parliament elected Mr Abhisit, you say? Does not parliament express the will of the people?


Parliamentarians vote their conscience. They collectively represent the will of the people. If their votes are not accepted by the voters in the next election they will be removed. This is called democracy. In a democracy we don’t allow people to riot and murder if they don’t like a vote. They have to wait for the next election. By the way, in the last year there were three bi-elections in the northeast and the democrat party of Abhist got the majority votes in all three elections.


>>>it is common knowledge that the judiciary is hand-in-glove with the military-palace complex. It's hard to trust in the integrity of the biased judiciary.

It is not common knowledge here. So, please be careful, you are insulting the integrity of eleven Supreme Court judges who sent two of Thaksins’ lawyers to jail for trying to bribe them, which is why Thaksin fled while out on bail. He could see the court could not be bought. We our proud of our courts exactly because they are standing up for the law.

>>>As for your allegation that Red Shirts are being paid: could the same be said of PAD protesters?

Yes.


>>> Was the money alone sufficient inducement, or would they not have protested anyway, given their legitimate grievances?

You are suggesting that Thailand is such a repressive place that people have no recourse except to take buses to the capital and throw bombs at passers by on the sidewalk. This is ignorant and insulting to all Thai people.


>>>As for the 'horrible violence',here's violent: setting soldiers with M-16s and live rounds on largely peaceful (albeit with rogue elements) protesters.

It is accepted by international media there were no deaths even as the protestors sent buses with the throttle held open by cloth, towards police and civilians.

>>>As for your remaining allegations about Singapore - you'd best put YOUR OWN house in order before slinging mud at Singapore.

Wait a minute, that is my point. You are the one slinging the mud I merely point out what I said below was in the newspapers. You should not be judging other countries when you know nothing about what goes on there except what you read in your biased local papers.

>>> and riches robbed from the rural Northerners and Northeasterners that you so despise.

First of all I am from the north and my husband is from the northeast. You are brainwashed. Thaksin is loathed throughout Thailand by rich and poor alike. There is poverty everywhere here but you only see violence by Thaksin’s supporters. Why is that?

>>> What are you going to do about the real grievances of your countrymen, besides brutally suppress them, continue robbing them, and **** about others who point out these problems?

The only brutality has been by the red mobs of Thaksin. This is agreed by the international media. Our problems, we can solve those ourslelves in our own way, but Thaksin has destroyed the sense of nation that glued us together when he attacked our royal institutions. We love our king; he is the one who has spent his life trying to help the poor. Thaksin spent his life trying to sell us things. Make us become consumers. Make people leave the land and become employees of his factories. He did nothing to lift us up like our king. Now he claims to be fighting for the poor and democracy after betraying our trust and running with our money. This is the truth of what is going on here.

The opinion of the "majority in Singapore", referred to by one poster, may well be instead that this is just a situation of political power play and cynical manipuation of grass roots supporters on both sides.

At least some of the "majority in Singapore" wouldn't be impressed EITHER by the way Thaksin is demonised by some OR by the way previous reservations of the same foreign press about him are now being shrugged off in favour of a glossy image as something of a champion of democracy.

At least some of the "majority in Singapore" wouldn't be impressed by the way Baju Merah violence is being shrugged off as just the work of "rogue elements" even as they also don't have any sympathy for Baju Kuning violence.

Many of the "majority in Singapore" would be impressed if viable alternative methods of riot control can be suggested beyond shrill denunciations of the use of military force, especially after the police proved reluctant ( to be ex-post-facto scapegoats for excessive violence ).

The main issue, laosuwan, is RULE OF LAW. Something you haven't quite grasped, and that makes Singapore the envy of many of my THAI friends, both from BKK and the countryside. Try and listen to your own people for a change, instead of your own nauseating rhetoric.

If the truth is that the establishment wants to cling to its dominance and corrupt wealth, and does not want to give the 'unwashed hordes' a say, come right out and say so!
(oops, you already have, haven't you - in deed if not in word).

Laosuwan,

Let's address your 'facts'
Thailand has a more free open and honest media? What about the shutting down of Pro-Thaksin sites / TV stations? Or the abuse of the lese majeste law? Or the strongly pro-establishment Bangkok Post / The Nation?

Parliament elected Mr Abhisit, you say? Does not parliament express the will of the people? The people voted for parliamentarians who DID NOT choose Abhisit. It took some judicial skulduggery to kick out the duly elected parliamentarians. So try not to pull this subterfuge - however you paint it, the democratic process has been subverted.

Which brings us to allegations of 'electoral fraud' - it is common knowledge that the judiciary is hand-in-glove with the military-palace complex. It's hard to trust in the integrity of the biased judiciary.

As for your allegation that Red Shirts are being paid: could the same be said of PAD protesters? And might the sum they are paid (if they are) be fair recompense for risking life and limb, and leaving their day jobs? Was the money alone sufficient inducement, or would they not have protested anyway, given their legitimate grievances?

As for the 'horrible violence',here's violent: setting soldiers with M-16s and live rounds on largely peaceful (albeit with rogue elements) protesters.

As for your remaining allegations about Singapore - you'd best put YOUR OWN house in order before slinging mud at Singapore. The corruption is an established fact in Thailand - if Thaksin had his hands in the till, well he sure wasn't the only one. I'm sure many of your dear parliamentarians and judges / generals are up to their necks in Myanmar money, and riches robbed from the rural Northerners and Northeasterners that you so despise.

The real issue is: What are you going to do about the real grievances of your countrymen, besides brutally suppress them, continue robbing them, and **** about others who point out these problems?

the singapore media is so biased in favor of thaksin it is shameless. we in thailand have a much more free, open and honest media. Fact: No prime minister is directly elected. Fact: Abhisit was democratically elected by the parliment. Fact: The Thai supreme court disbanded Thaksin's party because the constitution requires it on conviction of electoral fraud. Fact: The yellow shirts protest against Thaksin had nothing to do with the disbanding of Thaksin's party. It was co incidental. Fact: The Northern and Northeaster members of the reds committing horrible violence and terror in the capital are paid 500 - 1,000 baht per day per person. Fact: We have had two elections in the past three years. We dont need another one. Even if we had one the outcome would be the same; a roughly 50-50 split meaning nothing would change. This government has been in office three months. It has been reasonable and tried to do good. Give it time. The fact is that one man, Thaksin, has divided the country. He put his family into every major position of power in the goverhment. Silenced his critics through the courts ala Singapore style, he put is own people on all the independent watchdog bodies, and he robbed the country on a scale never before seen in our history. Sinapore was often complicit in this. From Temasak helping him evade foreign ownership restrictions to sell AIS to Singapore ilegally and without paying any tax. to UOB getting its hands on Bank of Asia when Thaksin changed the law to force it to sell out. To doing business together with Thaksin in Myanmar dictatorship. Singapore should take a good look at its own house before it starts judging democracy in Thailand.